MONTLHÉRY Thibaud

Abt 1000 - Abt 1060  (60 years)

• Name	MONTLHÉRY Thibaud
  Birth	Abt 1000
  Gender	Male
  Death	Abt 1060	Montlhéry, France
  Notes	Thibaud / Thibaut "File Étoupes" (lat: Theobaldus "Filans-Stupas") was the father of Gui, Seigneur de Montlhéry, who controlled the important estate of Montlhéry (lat: Montem-Lethericum) in the Hurepoix region south of Paris during the early period of the Capetian Dynasty of the Franks. Thibaud was noted as being a forestier of Hugh Capet's successor Robert II King of the Franks and the person who had fortified Montlhéry. [1] [2] [3] -Tempore Roberti Regis Theobaldus cognomine Filans-stupas, Forestarius ejus, firmavit Montem-Lethericum, Ipse habuit unum filium nominarum Guidonem, qui acepit in uxorem dominam de Feritate & de Gomet. (In the time of King Robert, Theobald / Thibaud, known as File-Étoupes, his Forester, fortified Montlhéry. He had one son named Gui, who took as his wife the lady of Feritate and Gomet.) His son Gui's wife Hodierne de Gometz-la-Ferté was also referred to in the text (as "the lady of Feritate and Gomet") as was typical for a donation or charter in honor of a parent. [1] [2] [4] Thibaud's wife is not known; and neither she nor his parents are referred to in the later charter connecting him to his son Gui and daughter-in-law Hodierne, but several historians of the Capetian dynasty (including geographe du Roy (royal geographer) and historian André Du Chesne), indicate that Thibaud was related to the house of Montmorency (see "Research Notes - Family of Thibaud "File-Étoupes"). Montlhéry and Longpont Château de Montlhéry (founded 11th century) The estate of Montlhéry was an important fortification along the strategic route between Paris and Orléans, and became closely associated with the Famille Montlhéry, including Gui and later descendants. Gui was also the founder of the medieval priory of Longpont, which later become the Basilique Notre-Dame-de-Bonne-Garde. Gui was noted in 1067 in connection with King of Philippe I of France in a charter of the priory of Saint-Martin des Champs in Paris - and in a further donation of land to Notre-Dame-de-Longpont in which Gui was noted with his wife and eldest sons Milon and Gui. [1] Research Notes Family of Thibaud "File-Étoupes" and reported connection to the House of Montmorency As noted above, Thibaud "File-Étoupes" is identified as the father of Gui de Montlhéry in connection with a charter that also reflects his daughter-in law (i.e. Gui's wife). Thibaud's own wife and parents are not referred to in the later charter; however several historians indicate that Thibaud "File-Étoupes" (who was a forestier of King Robert and who fortified Montlhéry), was of the house of Montmorency, as noted and referenced below. The seigneury of Montmorency to the north of Paris was associated with Thibaud de Montmorency, while the estate of Marly to the west of Paris was associated with his brother Herve de Montmorency, Seigneur de Marly. Nevertheless, Herve's son Bouchard would eventually become the seigneur of both, along with several other estates north of Paris. It is certainly possible that Thibaud de Montmorency had no children and therefore both the estate of Montmorency and the estate of Marly passed to Herve's son Bouchard. It is also possible that Thibaud was involved in the establishment of another estate, which may have been Montlhéry (see Research Notes associated with Thibaud de Montmorency) and the discussion below. [5] From the Montmorency side, a study of the Maison de Montmorency focused on the heirs of the seigneury of Montmorency (which passed to Thibaud's nephew Bouchard [III] and his descendants) - as well as that of the seigneury of Montlhéry - and indicated that a Thibaud de Montmorency had become associated with fortification of Montlhéry, which was at a strategic location on the route from Paris to Orléans and which thereafter became associated with Gui de Montlhéry and his descendants. Among these, the French friar and historian Père Anselme de Sainte-Marie researched and published a nine volume account of the French royal house and nobility including a chapter related to the Montmorency family based on that of royal geographer and historian André Du Chesne), in which Thibaud "Files-Étoupes," the father of Gui de Montlhéry, was considered to have been related to the Seigneurs de Montmorency, potentially the brother of Bouchard. [3] [6] [7] From the Montlhéry side, the reported connection between Gui's father Thibaud "File-Étoupes" and the house of Montmorency comes from the historic community of Longpont-sur-Onge, which has long been associated with the domain of Montlhéry. In particular, a history of the Longpont priory - which was the subject of a donation by Gui de Montlhéry in about 1061 and later became the Basilique Notre-Dame-de-Bonne-Garde - indicates that Gui de Montlhéry's father was "Thibaud de Montmorency." The underlying documents reflected upon in connection with the later history of Longpont are not re-transcribed into the publication, but the cited historical review reported on by Sieur de Brémeron in 1713 reflected an inventory of documents of the associated convent (le petit couvent de Longpont), as noted in Cawley FMG and in the Longpont history itself. [1] [8] [9] The indication that it was Thibaud who had established and fortified the seigneury of Montlhéry (as described in reference to son Gui, who would become Seigneur de Montlhéry [2]) is also consistent with a change of surname in that nobles who acquired or developed a new estate often passed the new name on to their successors and other children. The appearances and titles of the indviduals in royal charters of the time are also consistent. In particular, Thibaud de Montmorency and his brother Herve de Montmorency, Seigneur de Marly appear together as nobles (often appearing closely with Simon [I] de Montfort) - and following the fortification of the seigneury of Montlhéry (by the father of Gui whose name was Thibaud), Gui de Montlhéry appears with them as noted below. Among the documents, a 1060 charter related to the restoration of Saint-Martin-des-Champs in Paris, includes the signum or seal of Tetbaldi de Monte-Morenci high among the list of nobles (following the king, ecclesiastical figures and counts), cf. page 19 of Preuves. In the subsequent charter related to Saint-Martin-des-Champs in 1067, Gui de Montlhéry appears with the nobility - together with Thibaud de Montmorency and Simon de Montfort (reflected as Guido de Monte-Letheri, Simon de Monte forti, Thetbaldus de Mont-Moriaco) (cf. Preuves pp 21-23). All of them also appear together in order, immediately following the counts, in a subsequent royal charter of 1071 related to the church of Saint-Spire de Corbeil (cf. Preuves pp 24-26): [7] - Signum Guidonis de Montelhari (Gui de Montlhéry) - Signum Theobaldi de Montemorenci (Thibaud de Montmorency) - Signum Hervei de Marliaco (Herve de Marly, brother of Thibaud de Montmorency) - Signum Simonis de Monteforti (Simon [I] de Montfort) It is also possible that the Thibaud de Montmorency who was reportedly involved with establishment of the estate of Montlhéry was not the son of Bouchard [II] (i.e. the brother of Herve) but rather the son of Bouchard [I] "le Barbu." Although the numbering system used by Du Chesne differs (as noted in the Research Notes of Thibaud de Montmorency), his genealogical table and text related to the connection between the Montmorency and Montlhéry estates suggests that Thibaud de Montmorency was the brother rather the son of Bouchard "le Barbu" Seigneur de Montmorency - and that he had become associated with the estate of Montlhéry, which he passed to his son Gui. [6] [8] Some researchers have suggested that Gui de Montlhéry may have been the grandson rather than son of Thibaut "File-Étoupes." One of these is reflected in a Wikipedia article related to Gui (Wikipédia (fr): Gui Ier de Montlhéry). However, this is based in large part on there being a lengthy time gap between Gui and Thibaud - but that is apparently based on Thibaud having been potentially born much earlier in about 960, which itself is not established. While Gui de Montlhéry's father Thibaud may thus well have been a Thibaud de Montmorency as noted in connection with the convent of Longpont (and as reflected by the historians referred to above), the relationships are not considered certain and so they remain reflected in separate profiles connected to the Montlhéry and Montmorency families, respectively, as Thibaud de Montlhéry and Thibaud de Montmorency. Dates of birth and death - and potential alternative chronology The dates of Thibaud's birth and death are not known but his son Gui was apparently born by about 1020 (based on info related to his children), which is also consistent with Thibaud having been a forestier of King Robert II (who died in 1031). A potential alternative chronology has been proposed in a Wikipedia article in which Thibaud de Montmorency might be the grandfather rather than the father of Gui de Montlhéry. The alternative is essentially based on a suggestion that Thibaud was born far earlier, in 960 - which would be about a century before Gui's connection to Montlhéry. But the "argument" is essentially circular since there is no clear evidence that Thibaud was born in 960 - nor that he died in 1030 - as the corresponding Wikipedia article suggests for Thibaud de Montlhéry. Indeed the Wikipedia article has been flagged for lacking sources. Some confusion may have arisen from Du Chesne, who offered a potential family tree in which Thibaud (Gui's father) might have been the brother of Bouchard II rather than his son - but if that were the case then both Thibaud and Gui would apparently need to be "moved up" in time since Du Chesne notes that Thibaud established the tower and/or fortification (château) at Montlhéry and that Gui was his son. :In sum, while it cannot be ruled out that Thibaud might have been the grandfather rather than father of Gui, the support for such an alternative chronology essentially rests on a very early date of birth for Thibaud, which itself is not clearly supported. Earlier version of profile This profile for Thibaud as the father of Gui de Montlhéry was previously associated with an unsourced profile for his putative wife, who is in fact unknown - giving her name as "Elizabeth" and confusingly assigning Montlhéry as her LNAB and suggesting that she had married Thibaud de Montmorency. None of the foregoing match any of the cited records and rather added to confusion affecting the earlier connected profiles. The previously-connected FamilySearch profile on which it was based was earlier disconnected from associated family and deleted. Sources ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 Seigneurs de Montlhéry by Cawley, Charles in Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Published by Charles Cawley and the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG) 2006-2021, including source citations and relevant texts; hosted online by FMG, accessed 2025: (See also WikiTree's source page for MedLands) ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 Ex continuatione Historiæ Aimoni Monachi Floriacensis, in Recueil des Historiens des Gaules et de la France (RHGF), Tome XI, p 275, available online at Ex continuatione Historiæ Aimoni Monachi Floriacensis Tome XI, p 275 ↑ 3.0 3.1 de Sainte-Marie, Père Anselme, Histoire généalogique et chronologique de la maison royale de France, des pairs, grands officiers de la couronne et de la maison du roy et des anciens barons du royaume. (Paris, Estienne Loyson, 1674); cf. III: 664, available online from Bibliothèque nationale de France (BNF) via Gallica at: Seigneurs de Bray et de Montlhéry, Vicomtes des Troyes, issus selon du Chêne des Seigneurs de Montmorency ↑ Seigneurs de Gometz-la-Ferté by Cawley, Charles in Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Published by Charles Cawley and the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG) 2006-2021, including source citations and relevant texts; hosted online by FMG, accessed 2025: (See also WikiTree's source page for MedLands) ↑ Seigneurs de Montmorency by Cawley, Charles in Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Published by Charles Cawley and the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG) 2006-2021, including source citations and relevant texts; hosted online by FMG, accessed 2025: (See also WikiTree's source page for MedLands) ↑ 6.0 6.1 Du Chesne Tourangeau, André, Geographe du Roy Histoire généalogique de la maison de Montmorency et de Laval, (Cramoisy, Paris 1624); available online via Bibliothèque nationale de France (BNF) Gallica at:Histoire généalogique de la maison de Montmorency et de Laval ↑ 7.0 7.1 Du Chesne Tourangeau, André, Geographe du Roy Preuves de l'Histoire de la Maison de Montmorency Tirées des Chartes de Diverses Églises, des Registres de la Chancellerie, du Parlement, & de la Chambre des Comptes, (Cramoisy, Paris 1624); available online via Bibliothèque nationale de France (BNF) Gallica at Preuves de l'Histoire de la Maison de Montmorency Tirées des Chartes de Diverses Églises, des Registres de la Chancellerie, du Parlement, & de la Chambre des Comptes ↑ 8.0 8.1 Du Chesne Tourangeau, André, Geographe du Roy Histoire généalogique de la maison de Montmorency (Livre XII): Les Seigneurs de Montlhéry et de Bray, Vicomtes de Troyes, et les Comtes de Rochefort, Seigneurs de Crecy, de Gourmay, & de Gommets, (Cramoisy, Paris 1624); cf. available online via Bibliothèque nationale de France (BNF) Gallica at:Histoire généalogique de la maison de Montmorency (Livre XII): Les Seigneurs de Montlhéry et de Bray, Vicomtes de Troyes ↑ Longpont Notre-Dame, Le Cartulaire du Prieuré de Notre-Dame de Longpont de l"Ordre de Cluny, au diocèse de Paris Xie - XIIe siècle; (Lyon, Perrin 1879); available online from Bibliothèque nationale de France (BNF) via Gallica at: Le Cartulaire du Prieuré de Notre-Dame de Longpont, cf. Introduction p. 20, quoting Brémeron, Sire de (1713) Livre contenant les Inventaires des Titres du petit couvent de Longpont & de ceux de l’Hôtel-Dieu de Paris, Archives de Seine-et-Oise, H. Prieuré de Longpont See also: Wikipedia (en) - Montlhéry Wikipédia (fr) - Famille de Montlhéry Wikipédia (fr) - Gui Ier de Montlhéry Wikipédia (fr) - Basilique Notre-Dame-de-Bonne-Garde
  Person ID	I60093	Freeman-Smith
  Last Modified	27 Jan 2026

  
  

  Family
  Children	1. MONTLHÉRY Gui,   b. Abt 1020, Montlhéry, France d. 1095, Longpont, France (Age 75 years)  [Father: natural]
  Family ID	F347605	Group Sheet  |  Family Chart
  Last Modified	27 Jan 2026